: Mr
Zanussi, You have been always considered as one of the three major Polish film
directors..The others being Wajda and Kieslowski. But there's a distinct
difference between you and the other two that I have noticed. Almost all your
screenplays are your own and not adapted from other sources, unlike Wajda or
Kieslowski.
Abraham: That makes you the main person in
spite of the characters in the film. Your mind comes through to us who are
viewing your films because your mind is represented through those characters
you have created. I see a lot of your interest in science, your interest in the
books that you have read, those philosophies come through in the leading characters
you have created in your films. Is that right?
Zanussi: I hope it is. It's up to you to judge.
Abraham: One of your
films
that really made me your admirer was your
early work made in collaboration with Germany, a film called
Ways in the Night (1979).
Zanussi: Wege in der Nacht
Abraham: Yes, The way
you structured it was fascinating for me, because your script split it into
three parts. One on the love affair between a good Nazi and a Polish aristocratic
lady; another on the past history of the Nazi officer, and the final segment of
the Nazi’s daughter and her strange comments on the affair concluding the film, a segment that
would force viewers to reassess the film altogether. Several
decades later, Russian director Konchalovsky has done the same with his film Paradise. Not many other directors have employed this radical structure.
Zanussi: Glad to hear that. And as this film is
forgotten, I am very happy that you are one of my viewers.
I was inspired by some situation in my own
family. So it is a very personal film. Of course, everything is remodeled. But
the whole idea of a good German, a good enemy, is something very intriguing to
me. And at the time, when I was writing this film, it was in the 70s . I was
very much afraid that being the subject, a citizen of a country in the Soviet
bloc, I will be forced to take part in the war that they were announcing all
the time. And we knew in Poland, the Polish army was supposed to go against
Denmark. And that I could be some day, probably be an interpreter in the army, I
will be soon be facing my acquaintances, my friends in Denmark, telling them
get out of their house, because some Soviet officer would be staying there
This was a frightening prospect. So I did identify with the German as
much as with the Polish character. I thought each of them is in a tragic
position. Culture is not enough to make peace between two people who are on opposite sides of a war.
Abraham: Probably you're aware of it
that subconsciously you had created two
well-educated personalities as the two lovers, and that they have read a lot more than
the others.
Zanussi: Right.
Abraham: And that made
the difference to the entire story. And this resurfaces in the
rest of your work as well. It's the people who are well read, who are often good
people listening to their conscience and making the right decisions..
Zanussi: I am not in a
position to judge. That is my intention. You read my intention according to
my expectation. I am very grateful.
Abraham:. And also, you are able to do something
special with Maja Komorowska, one of your favorite actresses who has been with
you.in so many later films of yours. In this particular film, she stole my
heart. I mean, even though later on, she has done so many works (
A Year of the Quiet Sun; In Full
Gallop), which were equally good. But this early work was remarkable.

Zanussi: I will definitely will tell her, Yes, because we're still friends, and still in
touch. She's still active, even though she's even older than myself. And she is
still active on stage, occasionally she does some some roles in films.
Abraham: We see her later on in your film A
Year of the Quiet Sun, portraying
a different character. There again, her character is almost similar to her
character in
Ways in the Night underscoring
that people who have a good conscience, do the right thing. And I think that
comes as a recurring theme that goes through all your films, that taking the
right moral action is very important, in spite of everything else.
Zanussi: While trying to be right, there are
some tragic situations where there is no good way out as in my film
Camouflage. When if you don't quit,
you're guilty, even if you have good intentions. That's a tragic
situation that we know from Greek drama, right? But that's what we try to
avoid. In fact, whenever I'm confronted with India, I wonder how you manage
to avoid tragic aspects because you have Sanskrit
drama and I try to read some of them. But there is no tragedy but there is
drama and conflicts but there is always a way out. And there is always an
original order, or original harmony, that you can restore at the end. Right? I
think there's a very big cultural difference between Europe and India.
Abraham: Contemporary playwrights have taken up
the aspect of tragedy in contrast to, as you point out, the original ancient ones.
You might have heard of the late Girish Karnad as a playwright and filmmaker.
He wrote
Tughlaq, which is a very interesting tragic play, I always wondered why nobody has picked up that play to make
a film. And it's a historical character, which is a tragedy and a beautiful one.
I've happened to have acted in that play when I was in college.
So, apart from that, I
noticed that you have often reverted to casting some of the actors whom you
worked with earlier on. An example is Scott Wilson.
Zanussi: Oh, yes. How do you go back as a human
being? As a married man I have only
married once! Yes. So I have a natural tendency to be faithful and faithful to
my friends, right. So when I have a good experience with an actor, I always
invite these actors to my future works, like Leslie Caron, who worked three times with me, and really
many others like Maja Komorowska and
Zbigniew Zapasiewiecz.. He is such a good example when we talk about well-educated
and passionate people. Right. Sometimes education kills your passion. Then that education is not the right education. What it means is that it is the wrong
education.
Abraham: Now, let me get back to your interest in physics.
Because that interests me because I too studied physics initially in college. When you
started your film career as a director and original screenplay-writer, you
dealt with inorganic subjects, and then gradually moved on to organic subjects in films and used them as allegories, For instance, from
Structure
of Crystals, to mathematics and statistics (
Imperative), to physics (
Illumination)
to even linguistics (
Camouflage),
and then you go on to inorganic examples in science as in the film
Life as a Sexually Transmitted Disease.
Zanussi: One thing is stable, that all material
world is interconnected.
Abraham: That’s true,
Zanussi: And there was
a movement, the first half of the past century was half century of physics. The
second is half a century of biology. So I travel with the development of the
problems. Now the future of humanity depends very much on biology and genetic
engineering, right? Are we going to improve our species or kill it? What’s
going to happen?
Abraham: I was surprised that not many people in
the US, UK and Latin America are aware of your films except when your early
film
Ways in the Night came out. The
famous US film critic Roger Ebert gave it very high ratings and in his review and stated that you are “
one of the best filmmakers in the world..“ Apart from that
recognition, not many people are aware of your films in those parts of the
world.
Zanussi: I still must be happy that somebody is
aware like yourself.
(The exclusive interview was curtailed by the IFFK organizers and I had
to join the press conference where I could ask more questions to Zanussi)
My questions at the press conference follow:
Abraham: My
question relates to my earlier conversation with you. Were there chances for you to collaborate
with some other co-scriptwriters on your films and what was the outcome?
Zanussi: Yes, at the beginning, with a colleague of mine from the film school,
who was a writer. He was more advanced than I was. He joined me and we were
writing scripts for television, which I made into films later. But once the scripts became
more of a story for my first film, we could not agree, I had my vision and he
had his. We had a friendly parting of ways. We remained friends for the rest of
his life.
Abraham: So you felt that by doing things your own, you probably had a more
rounded structure for your screenplays?
Zanussi: No. A different structure. The message was different. My friend was far more negative than I was. So
there was no compromise. Either there was hope or no hope.
Abraham: Would you like to say something about your work with Polish music composer Wojciech Kilar, and the music of this composer
with whom you have worked on so many of your films? Why did you pick him? And
stay with him?
Zanussi: We became friends. The
beginning of the friendship was a disaster. And I was guilty of it. I had a
crazy idea as young filmmakers have, when you're young, you have ideas that are
totally insane. Because I have a good musical ear, no education, I thought I will
make a revolution and I will ask music to be written before I make a film, not
after. Two composers said it is impossible. And the third one said, I don't say
that is reasonable. He wrote the music, I used his music as a playback.
Everything was right. Once the film was edited, it looked ridiculous. It was
really, really ludicrous. Because when you had a shadow, you had to have
something that corresponded to it. So it was like animation. It was a very bad idea.
Kilar said that now I will write the real appropriate music for your Structure of Crystals. He wrote it. And
since then, I felt I had such depth from his music for my films. From my next film onwards, I wouldn't say a word to him to avoid confrontation. And since then, he wrote music for all my films with no exception. And I was never disappointed.
Sometimes I spoke with his wife, as an
intermediary but never directly. Sometimes it was my wife who was speaking with
his wife. That was the way how we survived without confronting each other. But we
were talking about theology, physics, and everything else but music. Well, unfortunately, he was working with
other bigger directors than myself like Francis Ford Coppola (Bram Stoker’s Dracula), like Kiesolwski
and Polansky and many others. And I reproached him and said you are my good friend.
Why do you write such good music for my competitors? He simply answered “Make good
films as they do” and I will write you good music. So even this terrible answer
didn't discourage me and our friendship survived.
Abraham: A question
on cinematographer Edward Klosinsky and his actress wife Krystyna Janda, both
of whom collaborated with you on several films.
Zanussi: You know
so much about Polish cinema…
Abraham: How did
you find working with Klosinsky (Camouflage;
Persona non grata)?
Zanussi: Well,
Janda is now a widow. Klosinsky, my friend and cameraman passed away. We had a
good understanding as he was extremely intelligent and became famous making
films abroad (Three Colors: White and
Red; Europa) as well. His wife Janda,
now in her 70s, became famous in the films of Wajda (Man of Iron; Man of Marble; The Conductor)
with Klosinski as the cinematographer. She is now very popular with feminists.
Abraham: When you
worked with Klosinski, was he giving you ideas or were you
giving him ideas? What was the creative process between the two of you?
Zanussi: As an
intelligent man, he found it easy to tune into somebody’s tastes. When he was
working with me he would bring me suggestions, and they were in my style of filmmaking.
When he was working with Wajda, he would suggest to Wajda according to Wajda’s
style. He understood the script; he understood the director.,
Abraham: When you made your film Imperative,
you had named the main character as Augustine. What percentage of the audiences you feel recognized the connection?
Zanussi: I didn’t
make a survey to check. The name of the main character is not just coincidental.
When we have children we choose their names according to our desire. We
sometimes name them after saints to protect them later in life. St Augustine
was the first writer of psychological perspective of one’s inner life. And he
was a terrible character, a difficult man to deal with and yet a genius..
Abraham: Thank you,
Mr Zanussi.
****
Some interesting Zanussi quotes
from the Press Conference in response to other media persons' questions:
“I believe in
reason, but reason has its limits. We think, everything is already explained.
And now we see mysteries are back. That's a great discovery of the 21st
century, with the new modern physics, where everything is surprising and
paradoxical. Because they use different logics. And I meet many scientists who
say, we work but we don't have a step. That's a very humble approach.”
“I have to refer to
something that you all remember from school and maybe not yet. It is the Gauss
curve (Gaussian distribution). You know, Gauss has made this camel-like curve which shows that majority in every case is
mediocre. because majority is always off as a mathematical principle, a statistical
principle. And excellence is always in minority. So, in the past, when your maharajahs
and our princes and kings and emperors were giving subsidies to support art,
they were supporting great artists who were not popular with a large audience
at all.”